08.06.08
Guys Who Talk a Good Game at the Beginning
I have a crazy friend John, who isn’t actually crazy but is one of those people who things happen to. The youngest of 5 or 7 kids, the only boy, and the only single one in a very Catholic family, he had the worst luck dating. Until he met this girl Jennifer, who as far as we all could tell, was perfect for him. She was as geeky as he was, smart like he was, super nice, pretty, interesting, etc. And after six months, they broke up.
John only talks about himself in long stretches, so if you can get him to open up, you know you’ve got your next hour or so accounted for. I finally got him to tell me why they broke up. The condensed version: “In the beginning of relationships, I always talk a good game,” he said, “I say all the right things and do all the right things, but it’s not sustainable.”
So basically, he says everything girls want to hear, then he realizes that it requires work, so he stops. Sound familiar, ladies?
It pretty much describes every relationship I’ve been in. But I think what actually happens is that the guy is in full wooing mode at the beginning. He’s doing all sorts of things for the girl, and the girl loves it. She appreciates it. So she starts doing things for the guy. And that sends the signal to the guy that he doesn’t have to do everything anymore, and so he starts doing less, the girl starts doing more and eventually resents the disparity in effort OR she gives as much as she’s getting, which is nada, and the relationship fizzles out
Guys who talk a good game at the start are, in fact, interested. It’s just that they lose interest when they start having to work to make a girl happy. And why is the girl unhappy? Usually because she feels she’s doing more than the guy and wants the guy to step up. That’s when not planning dates becomes an issue — when it’s no longer the guy taking the initiative or even a quid pro quo.
Basically, what I’ve learned in my hiatus from blogging here — as I’ve been actually dating someone and as, more recently, I’m watching it fizzle out — is that the Rules and Men Are From Mars are right. Guys stay interested when they have to work a little. Not a lot, because games are as much of a turn-off for guys as they are for girls, but a little. It’s how we’re programmed.
So next time, because, yes, there will be a next time, I’m going to appreciate the nice things a guy does for me at the beginning and show him that that stuff makes me happy. Because guys who are semi-serious about a relationship want to make girls happy. They want to feel useful. And you have to let them make you happy at the beginning if you want them to keep doing it throughout the relationship.
David said,
August 23, 2008 at 1:41 pm
“So basically, he says everything girls want to hear, then he realizes that it requires work, so he stops. Sound familiar, ladies?”
Just wanted to make my humble comments if I may? From a male perspective of course.
Well, its just that you seem to be looking at this from a rather narrow perspective, dont you think? I mean as a man it can be rather exhausting in the beginning of a relationship putting in all the time and effort of doing what you hope is what the woman wants to hear (what the woman wants to hear, see, do, eat, etc, etc..the list goes on) Of course she cant tell you what she wants, you have to be telepathic and just know what she likes and doesnt like. And if you guess wrong–too bad! What? You like blue, I like pink. You like classical and not rock? Oh bad move. Your out! No second chances. And you wonder why the guys who are willing to lie to you and tell you what you want to hear are the ones that you actually end up with. Because you only accept what you want to hear, not what you should hear. Lies are often sweeter and more believable than the truth. It also causes a lot of pressure for a guy to just say what you want to hear.
I know what your thinking, I must come from a previous relationship that went wrong or something. Its not the case. I actually have a very healthy relationship. I just know as a man that what really happens is you get EXHAUSTED. Tired, depleted.After a while you realize that you cant continue keeping your elevated levels of energy every time you see her, while she examines you to see if your fit for her or not. You cant spend that much money every time you see her, you cant be funny all the time, you cant, you cant, you cant. Why? Because your actually human and you wouldn’t mind if she actually tried to pick up some of the slack too. Its not just one sided. Why does he have to crack all the jokes? Why cant she setup the dates, take the time to get to know what makes him tick? Maybe do some sweet talking herself? Unfortunately, usually women wait way too long to finally realize that maybe it shouldnt just be him trying all the time to chase after her. When she finally gets to that point suddenly the man is no longer interested. Wow, I wonder why?
So give the guy some understanding and patience. It aint easy doing all the chasing in the beginning. If you make him run after you for too long and too hard, you may find the only person chasing you is your own imagination. Try putting yourself in his shoes for a change and you will know what its like on the other side. I say this with no previous judgment or ill will to either sexes. Just the perspective from the other side. Hope you dont mind my humble comments.
Oops, that turned out longer than I thought! lol Thanks!
Katie said,
August 26, 2008 at 11:29 am
Well, after reading Nicole’s blog and David’s comments, I felt I had to chime in. As a woman who has gone on her fair share of dates, (and is now happily married), I strongly disagree with much of what David said. Specifically:
-We DON’T want the man to do everything
-We DON’T need men to pander to our needs
-We DON’T expect men to be telepathic
-We DON’T want men to be just like us
-We DON’T want men to lie to us!!
-We DON’T ‘examine’ men to see if they are the right fit (for me, this was 90% gut feeling and 10% logistics)
-We DON’T expect men to spend gobs of money (who doesn’t love a picnic in the park!) or be funny all the time
-We DO want men who are human
-We DO want to create sustainable relationships where neither partner becomes completely exhausted/tired/depleted
-We DO want balance
-We DO want men who will make an effort to get to know us, and who will try to plan dates, do nice things, be funny, and go out of their way to make us fall in love with them. We will do the same.
Reading Nicole’s blog, I can tell that she’s damn funny and that even though this blog is somewhat tongue and cheek, she makes a sincere effort in her relationships. I wish her the best of luck.
Beth said,
August 28, 2008 at 11:48 am
I agree with Katie totally. I don’t agree with much of anything David said. I think maybe David needs to think about what he’s saying more. I guess he’s not too keen on women. :p Most women do just as much chasing and give just as many gifts and praise as a guy does. I’ve been in plenty of relationships to know that yeah, the guy is usually the first one to stop doing the nice stuff for their women, and it definitely wasn’t because I didn’t give him back what he gave me.
Roodle said,
October 8, 2008 at 9:07 pm
I’m grateful to hear one man’s perspective on it, and I read it differently than K & B– to me, it didn’t sound as though David was saying all women act like this. Whether or not you like what David said, I think his comments make a good quiz for women to take. (Do I do that when I’m dating? No, but maybe I do this other one, sometimes.)
Those who, like Katie, are able to answer “no” to most or all of them, are doing great! I’m guessing that’s why Kate is happily married now. (Kudos, and I hope someday to get there too.)
For anyone who answers “yes” a few times, though, there’s stuff to think about, and maybe even work on.
I’ll confess to two of the behaviors David describes.
First, I sometimes take a long time to “examine” the guy “to see if [he's] fit for [me] or not.” I’m working on getting more playful about dating, so rather than analyzing and judging a guy to see if he’s a match for me, I can just enjoy getting to know him until either things take off, or I realize I’m not interested in getting to know him any further. Sometimes I feel pressure to figure out what I want from the guy, which kills the fun for both of us. It’s no surprise when these don’t last!
Second, I sometimes do overreact to one thing a guy says, and write him off. I’m working on this one, too, and I’m definitely way better at it. Here’s one of my recent failures.
Larz Blackman said,
May 19, 2009 at 10:55 am
David’s post was excellent and true.
Katie is way off. When she says “WE don’t/do…” she means “I” because many women fit David’s description to a T.
Beth makes an even bigger mistake by playing the classic hand of “any critical remarks means that the guy has issues with women.”
Thank God for Roodle’s post — balanced with eyes open.
N said,
May 19, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Actually, I think most of the comments in this thread are making generalizations, which is usually what happens in relationship discussions. No one likes it, but we all do it. That’s why I started doing the Bros Roundtable — because I realized that a lot of relationship “problems” arise because people think that the other person is thinking something that they’re really not thinking. If people just listened to each other and talked to each other and tried to learn what was really going on, we’d all be better off.
This post does seem to raise guys’ ire. Which is funny, because it came from my friend John being totally honest with me about what he did. Actually, I later confirmed that that’s what happened with one of my exes — he admitted that he just talks a good game in the beginning, but when there’s no chase, he gives up. Or at least he did with me.